This week marks the second of three HPV immunisation jabs for 11-13 year olds in the UK. HPV is a sexually transmitted disease that can lead to genital warts and cervical cancer. We will be keeping our 13 year old out of school because they jabbed her last time without our consent and despite her not wanting it either. Some of you have been asking about this so here is the skinny.
Question: Can they jab your 11-13 year old daughter without parental consent in the UK?
Answer:Yes. According to the guidance in this Consent To Treatment form that was handed to us at our meeting with the NHS.
Children under the age of 16
Children in this age group are not deemed to be automatically legally competent to give consent. The courts have determined that such children can be legally competent if they have “sufficient understanding and intelligence to enable him or her to understand fully what is proposed”.
. . . The emphasis in the Department of Health’s guidance is that the families of children in this age group should be involved in decisions about their care, unless there is a very good reason for not doing so. If however, a competent child under the age of 16 is insistent that their family should not be involved, their right to confidentiality must be respected, unless such an approach would put them at serious risk of harm.
We don’t have a big problem with that particular law in the UK. In fact, we wish it were followed in our case, especially the parts about families being involved and children being given ‘sufficient understanding’. You may have read our story in my blog or in the national papers. Abigail, who has Type 1 diabetes, did not have ‘sufficient understanding’ regarding this process. She was told to sign a form and she obeyed. She did not know it was a consent form or that she was giving permission to something that neither she nor us wanted. The jab came unexpectedly, taking her by surprise. You can imagine the trauma our family has gone through, especially reading of deaths and injuries young girls have sustained in the USA.
We met with NHS officials after we lodged our complaint. The report from our meeting with NHS arrived yesterday. Pretty disappointing! We were expecting an apology for the coerced vaccination of our daughter and probably some disciplinary action for the doctor involved, but we didnt get either. Instead, their report ruled in their favour. Their conclusion:
Technorati Tags: hpv
“On the balance of probability: the GP did discuss the issues with Miss Jones :Miss Jones gave consent for the vaccination, which was contrary to her mother’s position.”
We dont agree with this conclusion. Actually, we think it sucks! It makes our daughter into a liar and we firmly believe her story. She is, after all, COMPETENT to explain what happened.
” . . .I believe that on the balance of probabilities Miss Jones clearly did understand the consent form and what she was signing.
I believe the report shows that NHS Orkney did seek consent in a correct and proper manner and that all protocols were followed in respect of the HPV vaccination programme.
Its hard to believe they arrived at this conclusion when the report also contains the questions I asked Abigail in their presence at this “fact finding investigation”.
“MrJones asked Miss Jones if she knew she had signed a consent form –
Miss Jones – “No”
Mr Jones asked if she knew what she was agreeing to –
Miss Jones – “No”
Mr Jones asked Miss Jones if she had been asked directly if she wanted the vaccine –
Miss Jones – “No”
My next question and statement [not in their official report] – “Were you surprised when the doctor gave you the injection? Abigail replied “Yes”. Then I turned to the group and said
“So, from our perspective, Abigail was coerced into getting this immunisation.” No one objected or contradicted me. It seemed pretty obvious but I guess that wasn’t reflected in the final outcome.
So here we are – at a stalemate. Debbie is exhausted and worn out. We don’t have any more energy or time to give to this and we are not sure where to go. Maybe its enough to just tell our story here and hope that it helps other families that go through the same situation.
Needless to say, Abigail is staying home from school tomorrow.
Andrew i’m sorry…. that really sucks…. all of it. I still would be keeping a health journal on it just for documentation sake. I’ll be praying for wisdom and divine connections as to the next step you guys take in this. I was feeling the weight as i read your words. – so i’ll mind the gap in the spirit.
love you guys…
Just took a break at my desk to pray for you guys.
I would be speaking with the licensing board for the doctors in your country about the doctor who did that to your daughter. I would file a formal complaint against the doctor and also be speaking with a lawyer to make sure this doesn’t happen to someone else and that doctors take a step back before trying something that arrogant and foolish ever again.
heaven forbid this would happen but what if you daughter had died? would your actions be different than it is now? i am not saying your doing enough, just curious if you feel you would act different.
Andrew, that is really disgusting. It’s quite simply lying, covering up the truth and “covering their rear”.
I would understand if you just dropped it, but I would also cheer you on if you decided to take further action (some kind of appeal, formal complaint, following up with the newspapers who originally published the story, etc.). If no-one ever stands up to this kind of thing, when will they ever stop getting away with it?
Are you going to write to the Scottish Health Minister Nicola Sturgeon about this?
Not only was your daughter jabbed without (your) consent, but now the officials at NHS Orkney have failed to investigate the matter properly.
You definitely deserve at least an apology – and an assurance that this will not happen again anywhere else in Scotland.
Hi, I’m no expert here, but surely the relevant medical notion is informed consent. You can’t, legally, give consent by accident, as it were. If your daughter was surprised by the injection, she plainly hadn’t given her informed consent, and the signature on the form is null and void.
Praying for you to have strength and wisdom…
There has to be a rule about consent if they sent her home with a consent form right? I mean why have a form if they wouldn’t be violating a law by not having it? That leads me to think this action was probably illegal and could easily get that doctor’s license revoked.
Sorry to hear about this result. I guess government systems don’t like being investigated or expected to apologize.
Grace and peace to your whole family.
hi andrew and debbie
so sorry to hear this. it all just echoes our experience of these large bodies who think they can fob you off with something wishy-washy and superficial.
i completely understand the exhaustion you feel – if i wasn’t being forced to continue my fight i know that i would have given up a long time ago. i pray that you will know complete peace as you decide on the next step and that the Holy Spirit will re-fuel you and restore you all.
with so much love
All of you are still on my mind, in my prayers.
Get rest, seek wisdom. If God tells you to stand down for now, your words have still been heard across the world.
Children in this age group are not deemed to be automatically legally competent to give consent
In that case they are not automatically legally competent to refuse consent also.
Miss Jones gave consent for the vaccination
SO if she is not legally capable of considering the matter of consent, how can she give consent?
Andrew, this is a bigger story than the fact she got jabbed in the first place. Authorities right around the world are using the Gillick case to get around cases like this – for example whether kids should be able to get parental consent if they are referred to abortion clinics – I suggest if you have the energy, read up on Gillick.
We don’t have any more energy or time to give to this and we are not sure where to go
Andrew forget the above comment, I’ve sent you an email on your gmail addy.
Dave, I did read Gillick and they quoted Gillick but Gillick is about a parent and daughter issue – one wanted it and the other didnt
in our case, our daughter did NOT want the jab and neither did we. the report saying
“Miss Jones gave consent for the vaccination”
was wrong because she was coerced, told to sign something and then jabbed while not expecting it.
lawsuits are sometimes the most loving thing you can do… for others whose well-being is in jeopardy. the LORD bless you as you proceed with discernment and courage.
I’m sorry things have turned out this way and we wish you the best of success in your battle. To the one comment I saw that was dirogatory, you should really be more educated on the matter and guys should really take this seriously, have you seen these things? http://picturesofgenitalwarts.org/genital-warts-pictures/
Our Daughter was given the first and second hpv vaccine Sept and Oct 2012, after the second one, which I actually thought was her first she began spinning her hand back and forth, that subsided. She then had her third one in March 2013, which I thought was her second. She began screaming and crying 6 days after, complaining of pain in her legs and hands. She began a ocd around sniffing which she felt takes her energy away. She has been like this to the present day and she is now on Risperodone and about to be on another drug. We have tried homeopathic toxicology, she stopped excessive screaming and crying after this. 3 pints of spring water a day (contains silica which binds aliminium and helps you excrete it) she is better but still not herself, cannot go too college or be in a close environment with sniffers. Still gets pain. DO NOT GIVE THIS TOO YOU CHILD especially if they have any kind of suspected Autism or low immune problem.