The Evolving Echo

The Evolving Church Confernce at Tyndale just happended.

-Darryl Dash has the skinny and notes on the speakers – Chris Seay, Brian McLaren, Don Miller.

– Tyndale Professor Craig Carter has yet to blog his experience but it should be a balanced view.

Paul Martin presented a paper on “The Emergent Church” – which has me a little worried because I am not sure how much of the emerging church he has eye-witnessed. Hopefully it will NOT be limited to a guided tour of the Zondervan/Baker World of Emergent Authors And Their Published Writings but will include an examination of what is happening on the ground. Darryl assures us it will be fair and critical, and Paul is gracious enough to blog it piece by piece at a new site – Examining Emergent – for response and adjustment.

126013776 C7813195Af MResonate ECHO was a smaller meeting at Richview Baptist Church. Brian M. spoke to 50 people. Tim Challies’s post Boldness is Our Birthright drew a lot of discussion yesterday in the blogosphere from both “sides”. I am waiting to hear the audio so i can judge for myself. Ridgeview will post audio soon on their site. BoarsHeadTavern are discussing it.

Regarding the lengthy and numerous comments on Challies blog, I thought Darryl Dash had the best one:

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“Just got back from the same meeting as Tim. I concur that Tim is gracious and fair, and I appreciate him changing the quote about McLaren, so I hope we can put that behind us.

I think Tim does raise some valid points here, although some of them are much broader than Saturday night. The issues are:

1. the role of Scripture

2. the value of certainty

3. a biblical theology that includes all of Scripture, including Paul and Jesus

I’m with Tim in being concerned about all three things.I personally didn’t hear McLaren undermine these points on Saturday night, but I think it’s worth getting them on the table because they certainly are important issues, and Tim and others picked them up.

I think Reformed and emergent types have a lot to learn from each other, and I still have this pipe dream that the learning will begin soon (and that assumes there is something of value in both streams, which I am prepared to assume). Hope so.”

Me too, Darryl. In fact, I have been doing some thinking on what bridges between the two exist (i noticed you have also)and what parts of Reformed heritage are influencing us


Andrew Jones launched his first internet space in 1997 and has been teaching on related issues for the past 20 years. He travels all the time but lives between Wellington, San Francisco and a hobbit home in Prague.


  • Peter says:

    I read this last summer:
    Can you tell me if this movement is growing, stagnating, or dead?

  • its evolving, peter. many alt. worship churches in UK AND their equivalents in USA are evolving slowly or taking a sudden leap, into something less focused on media and art and more relational and organic.
    but the art and media you read of are still part of the language.

  • Peter says:

    It’s not really the art and media that caught my attention. Can you point me to any alt.worship “churches” in the USA? Preferably near Seattle (up in the NW corner of the country)? I’d like to give them a plug on my website.

  • ally simpson says:

    andrew………our youth pastor has been at the tyndale one and we couldnt believe it but as it happens the guy funded his own trip (church were not interested) because at the mention of brian mcclaren in this town…….well needless to say i dont reckon hes popular!! i cant wait to hear how he got on……..

  • karen ward says:

    hi peter,
    great if you wanna give a shout to or visit
    in seattle (fremont district).
    we are very in sync with our u.k alt peers and have been the only usa group in the greenbelt festival (cheltenham) alt worship scene.
    we currently have three liturgical ‘expressions’- our ‘mass gathering’ (weekly, sat, 5 pm alt/emergent eucharist), taize (chill, chant, no tech, monthly, last sunday 6:30 pm) and ‘sanctorum’ (a dark, beautiful mass) monthy, on a sunday at 8 pm. – also i’m the north american ‘rep’ for
    blessed holy week

  • andrew says:

    hi karen
    yes – thats a great connection. and karen . . i hope you will be posting your Marvin Gaye communion on line one day.

  • Paul says:

    Eww, another guy named Paul Martin besides me. I hope people don’t confuse me with him since I don’t seem to share his perspective of the EC. I’ll wait for the dust to settle before commenting about the rest.

  • Paul Martin says:

    Hi Andrew,
    Thanks for the comments on the new blog. I hope you are able to point out where the work is weak as I continue posting.
    Much of the work is interacting with current authors, but not all of it.
    Since I am pastoring a church here in Toronto, I can only gain so much exposure… and I have tried to gain as much firsthand as possible. But, you are in the middle of it, so I will rely on you and others to fill in the blanks or offer corrections where I have gone astray.
    – Paul
    To the “other Paul Martin:”
    Well… I am not sure if I understood the “eww” correctly… but I for one am glad to meet another of us! 🙂 Our former Prime Minister here in Canada shared our name… that used to make me say, “eww” a lot. I will try to do you proud, my nomenclatured brother!
    – PM2

  • Peter says:

    Thanks for the info.
    If you want, you can send me a short blurb of a paragraph or two to put up on the site.

  • paul – [examingemergent paul – EEPaul as opposed to likeafirePaul]
    Toronto is an incredibly diverse city and you should make no apology for it. I heard they have the largest goth population in the world and much more.
    I am hoping you will not only be able to pinpoint some important factors in the wider emerging church but also that you will bring a special gift to the table – something God has shown you and your church about impacting the emerging Toronto scene with the timeless gospel.
    And if i get snobby and criticize to much, then call me an elitist grouchy old man because that is partly true. peace.

  • Paul Martin says:

    Hah! Well, I hope I only get to see the godly TSK, not the “elitist grouchy old man!”
    By the by… “Tall,” eh?
    I’m not so vertically-challenged myself. We’ll have to have a “height-off” some day…

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