Hope for USA?

george coming back to white houseBig hat tip for USA. I love that country. It is partly mine. I am a resident of USA (resident alien) and have spent a quarter of my life there. My wife is American and all my kids. Its a great country, and the world was watching today as Dubya was reelected.
I’m glad that America has a leader that believes his leadership is a "mandate" and believes that God has placed him there for a reason.
His acceptance speech a few minutes ago talked of a "season of hope" and "reconciliation" for the country, as well as helping to develop democracy in countries like Iraq and Afganistan.  OK – we all know it has been really messy so far – please dont complain here on my blog post. Putting the mistakes behind us, I am hoping that George will use his power to bring peace for the gospel in the Middle East . . . that he might follow in the footsteps of the last two-term Republican presiden, Ronald Reagan, It was Reagan that helped open up a door for Eastern Europe, a door that our family walked through and helped the people there take advantage of the new freedom. If George W. is able to do the same thing, then in 15 years time, we might be blogging from Bagdad, or Saudi Arabia, or Istanbul.
Anyway, we all give pause today, we stop what we are doing, and look at America, and acknowledge that it has huge potential for making the world a better place, not just for Americans but for everyone.


Andrew Jones launched his first internet space in 1997 and has been teaching on related issues for the past 20 years. He travels all the time but lives between Wellington, San Francisco and a hobbit home in Prague.


  • Rhys says:

    Surely you mean huge potential for Bush’s business cronies especially the vice president. Go and read Richard Sudworth who writes:
    – the phrase “evangelical Christian” will now descend to the depths of “Adolf” and “child abuser” in the public consciousness
    – Muslims across the world, in Iraq, Birmingham, and Washington will have more cause to be alienated by what is regarded as the Christian faith
    – Christians in Palestine, North Africa and elsewhere in the Muslim world will feel let down by the West and be further flabbergasted by the theology and practice of their brothers in sisters in the wealthy parts of the worldwide church
    “Lighten our darkness Lord, we pray….”

  • Andrew says:

    Hi Rhys
    Richard Sudworth is a friend of mine – a great friend – and i am not disagreeing that USA has made huge mistakes in the Middle East. In fact I CRINGE when i think of what has been done in the name of Christianity recently . .
    but i have been trying to tune in to what God wants to do, despite his ridiculous servants who normally screw things up and make it hard for Him . .
    bear with me Rhys, and try to leap over the current conversation for a few seconds and try and see from God’s angle . . . because there is more going on that what we can see on the surface . . .
    what i am thinking, deep down, (maybe a God thing . . ) is that from a posture of repentance, humility and brokeness over our mistakes, America might be able to pave a way for the gospel in the Middle East, or the Middle East might find an openess to the gospel in spite of America’s mistakes. Either way, i feel in my gut that God wants to do this and America has a part to play in it.
    Already, i see American missionaries acting in a posture of brokenness as a godly response to past abuse. This is enabling them to go to new places and see the gospel move ahead in ways that other countries cannot do.
    It is because of the negative past history, that Americans are able to walk gently.
    The English colonial abuse was a long time ago and too far away for many English missionaries to be aware of it – and i have seen many English act inappropriately in global situations because they are not aware of their past mistakes or tendencies. Americans in global Christian contexts are already limping, but it is because of their limp that God is able to use them.
    God’s strength is perfected in our weakness, for when we are weak, then He is strong.
    i hope i am making a little bit of sense here . . .

  • nile says:

    andrew, a bit disturbed by the large number of people in the “emerging church” opposed to “W”… can you elaborate on the seeming liberalism that seems to be part of the “ec” dna?

  • adam says:

    thanks for your thoughtful post…

  • Ben says:

    I don’t think i would want to be blogging in istanbul or bagdad…I guess i see it as a form of neo-colanialism.
    I was not happy to see Bush re-elected. It concerns me greatly when any leader believes that they have a ‘mandate’ from God as there is potential for abuse. God’s mandate is broader than one persons theology.

  • Tall Skinny Represents Me Better

    TallSkinnyKiwi: Season of Hope for USA I vote for Tall Skinny Kiwi to become the face and voice of Evangelicalism….

  • Jon says:

    Andrew, back in the days of the USSR, clandestine missionaries were operating behind the Iron Curtain.
    Today, clandestine missionaries are operating in Muslim countries. I hope you are right — but I am afraid that current US foreign policy is making their mission far more difficult.

  • Greg says:

    This is an interesting and, more importantly, refreshing take on USAmerica’s potential for good on the world stage. I’ve seen too much partianship and narrow thinking politically in the emergent blogosphere. As an USAmerican working in Nicaragua I am often taken aback by the hostility and venom against my country from (mainly) Brits. Yes, the USA has in many ways really screwed things up in the world. But hardly any worse than the European colonial powers did for centuries…and now we see reactions like the one above (Ben’s post regarding blogging from Istanbul or Baghdad)against being “neo-colonial”. Come on folks…can’t we rise above all this?

  • Mike Morrell says:

    I am trying desperately to take the posture of humility that you are suggesting here. But I cannot help but be disturbed at what seems like the calculated deceit and abuse of power that has happened during the Bush years. Far from a “pinko,” I was raised Republican and even voted Libertarian in 2000. But I have seen the fruits of a conservatism that is not fiscally conservative, and rushes to war on evidence misconstrued at best and cynically manipulated at worst.
    One person asks why most of us who are “emerging” in USAmerica seem to lean to the left. Well, I’ll tell you: We are reacting to the Religious Right (http://www.watchofthelord.com ), and we are seeing some real merit in the works of liberation theology from our sisters and brothers in Africa and the global South, as well as the efforts of folks on our side of the pond like Tom and Christine Sine, Tony Campolo, and Jim Wallis. We see a God of compassion, Whose mercy and justice aren’t in competetion, and Whose truest nature has been revealed in the person of Jesus.
    What does this have to do with politics? Everything. We are exploring a new freedom in how to relate in the local and global community, by discovering the non-State Church voices in hour heritage, such as the Waldnensians, the Anabaptists, the Quakers, and the Catholic Workers. We’ve been told that we have to be Republican to be Christian, but we’re discovering that we can be Democrat, Green, or even Christian Anarchists (http://jesusradicals.com )!
    So, if we’re being a little loud and messy with our freedom, please forgive us. Kids with a new playroom tend to act this way. Surely, we have to have the humility to realize that we could be mistaken, just as the Evangelical Lobby in our nation is. Surely we need not rush to claim that Jesus is wholly on our side, either. But please forgive me for not being thrilled with the prospect of living a third of my life under one Bush presidency or another.
    I think, though, that I have made a new commitment to pray for governmental leaders, even those I would consider my “enemies.” I will pray for W., that he will make good on his commitments to Sudan and the unborn, and that he will see why so many of us ’emerging’ types were in a fuss over stewardship of creation, and care for the poor.
    Let’s pray for a united church from every tribe, tongue and nation; in the next four years and to come; united in the centrality of an encounter with God in Jesus Christ.

  • Rhys says:

    Maybe , just maybe what God wants and what the directors of haliburton are not the same and the last 4 years prove to me that the shareholders aka big business always have the upper hand and God’s work is at best undermined – eg Guantanamo, the death penalty, kyoto climate change
    oh and Britain is totally complicit in all of this – this is not an anti american rant – honest

  • Andrew says:

    Hi Rhys
    thanks for coming back.
    I think that God often gets what he wants, but not always in co-operation with those who say they are serving him.
    The early church moved ahead by the hand of God more than the obedience of believers. It was persecution that got their butts out of Jerusalem and into Judea – it was not a strategic move by the church.
    – Rome handed over the gospel to the Goths reluctantly and by being invaded by them.
    – The Vikings also received the gospel by raiding other countries, rather than a strategic attempt by Christian countries to bring it to them. This pattern is repeated through history (see Dr. Ralph Winter, Perspectives on the World Christian Movement).
    I am not saying that America’s current policy and military strategy will find fulfilment in the gospel taking root on Middle Eastern soil as a direct and intentional result.
    I am saying, that I think God’s intention is reconciliation and peace through His Son in the Middle East and he will use whatever power is at his disposal at the time, with or without the approval of those who think they have the power.
    God’s heart is for the Middle East. I expect that He will turn the attention of the churches in Western and non-Western countries toward the Middle East over the next 4 years. I expect mission agencies to move resources towards the Middle East over the next 4 years. I expect young emerging church missionaries to offer themselves for service in the Middle East. I do not expect all of them to come back. Many will be killed by the people they are going to bless and love and serve.
    already there are signs that these things are going on. Already, Muslims are dreaming dreams about Jesus, and asking questions, and reading the Injil (Gospels). Already there are movements in Bangledesh and Pakistan.
    And guess what the churches look like? They look much more like the simple emerging churches in the west than they do the big formal, complex traditional churches that our parents attended.
    Its possible, that emerging church people, having thought through contextualization of the gospel in their own culture and responded with a missional church, will find success in their attempts to love and bless the Muslim world, a success that has eluded the previous generation.
    There is currenly an open wound created by the arrogant stupidity of Western military might. Yes, I admit that and dont like it anymore than you do. But when there is an open wound, there is also the chance for healing. God is able to do this.
    The question is not what Americans have been doing, and its not Kerry vs bush or Repub. vs. Dem, but rather . .
    What does God want to do right now?
    REally, i think we all have to rise above current events, media manipulation ( UK is worse than USA) , being PC, and find a way to give God what he wants.
    i think we are agreed on this?
    lets be less PC and more like Jesus and lets try and see from a different angle.
    . . . to him who has eyes to see . . .

  • Just adding in a little rider to some of the above comments, especially as I have already been quoted…
    …for offended Americans: we as Brits are as much a part of the “imperialism” and sin that I refer to in my blog. The particulars of my comments about George Bush, aside from the policies of his government, are that the world associates him with the church. There is a particular harvest being reaped by policies so entwined with his Christian faith.
    …that is a problem and would be a problem whether he be Democrat, socialist whatever. The US/UK foreign policy of recent years creates a consequently greater alienation amongst the Muslim world as a result.
    Now, as to the hope for future mission. Dare I say that US and UK missionaries in the Middle East and North Africa actually take a backseat. There is actually little sign of the limp that you refer to Andrew. The recent Lausanne Worldwide Evangelism Conference was driven by the West (and a narrow conservative (in theological terms) band at that). Now more than ever, we need to be giving way to the South (Brazil, Uganda, South Korea, for example) in church, mission and economic power structures. Bush’s pronouncement about the US’s “unlimited capacity for good” give little room for hope that his regime and Christians allied to it will actually take this backseat.

  • depone says:

    Thanks for your thoughts on the election in the USA. Even though I am not the one who would have voted for Bush or any other conservative right wing candidate – I must acknowledge that – Bush takes his election as a ‘mandate’ from God is very cool – he also made sure that he wants to take the responsability with the help of God.
    One question: Are we without blame, when we try to live out the mandate God gave to us?
    I am thankful that my mistakes are not that effective on the world than the ones of people like George W Bush. God bless him.

  • Rhys says:

    More like Jesus – yes I agree but more like George W? No I don’t – for an explanation read my take.
    In peace and my commitment to live with our differences butI think we’ll agree to differ on this one.

  • Andrew says:

    great to have you on my site.
    I do respect your thoughts and i agree with them. I am thankful that our missionary enterprise is not led by George W. Bush.
    I have only attended one Lausanne organized conference, and that was the Global Roundtable in Malaysia, 2001. and yes, America did dominate.
    but i have also had the incredible priveledge of participating in countless missionary meetings around the world where Americans did indeed limp, who, realizing their reputation and sins of the past, were reluctant to say anything unless prodded. They sit in the back and pray that nationals will stand up and take the lead. I thank God for these people.
    Yes, the non-western shift in missions has already taken place – you are correct – and Americans are often playing an administrative role in world missions – serving and supporting rather than leading and teaching.
    perhaps i have just been in the right places and you were sent out to the worst examples of retro-american arrogance.
    I have seen more arrogance from British than from American missionaries. Sorry.
    A thought. Just a thought. One of Bush’s contributions to USA policy, which is ignored or downplayed by English, is the Faith Based Initiative (is that the right name for it?) in which he called for federal funding to flow to church and mission groups involved in social problems in USA as well as governmental groups.
    (am i wrong or is this not a GOOD and POSITVE THING?)
    Anyway, what would happen if the same thing happened on a global scale, ie
    what would happen if George W. Bush said ” ahhhh . . we havent done very well in relating to Muslim cultures, but we really want to help out. Why dont we just send some lovin to the mission groups who have a heart for it – they are better trained in contextualisation than we are and they are not interested in colonialsim, commercialism or exploiting Iraq. and besides that, if missionaries bring peace, then we will have less war and less headache??????”
    And Richard, if that happened, and there were more resources flowing towards missions in the middle east, then both you and i know that most of the people riding that wave will be coming from South Korea and Brazil and nigeria, not from South Carolina.
    Great talking with you Suds, and thanks for taking the time to comment on my blog.
    your link didnt come out but here it is right here.
    I feel you have not represented me fairly on your blog. To say that I believe God wants injustice, arrogance, etc is out of line and it shows that you have not understood what i have been trying to say.
    Have i not been clear enough???? Or would it just make things easier and more convenient for you if i was a fundamentalist and believed what you said i believe.
    Rhys – i am not even a Republican. I dont like MacDonalds. I am not the right person to accuse of those horrible things – believe me.
    Here is my response, which i have left as a comment on your blog posting
    “I think to lump me with all the injustices of American politics and atrocities is a bit unfair. I am not a Bush supporter. I am just someone who thinks that God may want to use America in these last days, to allow a focus of resources and attention to flow to the nations he loves, in particular, the Middle East.
    Is it possible for someone like myself to pray for and support what God may want to do through America without being categorised with ugly fundamentalism? Or do we all have to fall into one or two boxes of extremity?”

  • Rhys says:

    I think your post has several strands and I’ve picked on one of them Bush maybe(I think and Blair certainly) sees things as either you’re for us or against us.
    I was giving my view – not trying to cast you as the fundementalsit just pointing out you’r post as a different take rather than an exact opposite- the subtltiesd of the web but I can certainly see that how it might look fron your viewpoint. any offence that my post caused you I apologise

  • Rhys says:

    comment continued
    thanks for the comment on my blog – as you can tell I haven’t been doing this for too long but my hit rate – wow apologies again if you think I’ve been unfair. And we agree on more than we disagree as you said earlier

  • Andrew says:

    rhys – i see what you intended and i must have misread your comment -sorry to jump to conclusions – i just left an apology on your blog comments for those who read it and think that i was b-slapping you on your own blog.
    like i said on your blog, with your name, you should be writing on Welsh revivalism. I know i would read something on Welsh revivals by Rhys Morgan.
    thanks again for pushing forward to get to the truth.

  • Cheers Andrew! …I enjoy the fact that you have a habit of taking a slightly perverse line on things. That’s a compliment and part of your prophetic gift to the church. Yes, you are right in pointing out that George W isn’t ALL bad, contrary to my instincts and natural socialist inclinations. And yes, Bono has helped him to take huge steps on debt and AIDS..but I’m not cheering just yet

  • Jon says:

    BTW it is good to see civil disagreement. This is an something Christ-followers can demonstrate to a fractured society.

  • scotty says:

    some of us Christ-followers could learn from this as well. i for one am not good with words and know that i come off defensive or offensive at times.
    “tune in to what God wants to do” and “try and see from God’s angle”…..good words Andrew

  • Alan Cross says:

    I respect your desire to not totally get into all of the U.S. election stuff on this blog (I’m responding to your response to me on the other post). It looks like you kind of got into it anyway, sorry. Still, a good conversation. I went to India and travelled all over Europe this summer. The anti-American sentiment that I was told to expect never materialised. EVERYONE was kind, generous, and respectful wherever I travelled. I also got to have many natural conversations with people about Jesus. I think that “the limp” that you described is the key, and as more of us Yanks try to live like Jesus in contrast to some of the arrogance of our country, then people will receive that.
    America is flawed in many ways, but the people here, overall, want to do what is right. A big difference with America and the rest of the world is the 95% of Americans have absolutely no global perspective. We are our world. Other countries are just fantasies or places we read about or see in movies. We are fiercly independent and really get an attitude when we are asked to consider what the rest of the world wants or needs. America First. Kerry’s demise was that he played the global card a bit too much. That gives some insight on why you have some of the arrogance of American missionaries in some places (I’ve seen it), but younger, emergent missionaries are maybe trying to do it right. Believe it or not, it is difference of values and worldview playing out in churches, in politics, international affairs, and missions. This election was not a mandate on Iraq or the war on terror – it was about values, truth, and trust. For all of Bush’s flaws, Americans felt they could trust him more than Kerry because Bush seems to care about the values that most Americans care about, while Kerry came off as being elitist. We live in an interesting land.

  • Alan Cross says:

    Also, I am really sorry about your brother. My heart was grieved when I read that. He was very young. You and your family are in my prayers, and though I do not know the circumstances, I know it has to be hard. May God be with you and truly be the God of all comfort for you and your family.

  • Tim says:

    Andrew –
    Good post. I guess you know the best way to get comments on your blog now, huh?
    Anyway, I think it’s important to point out that George Bush is only one person just like the rest of us, and though I believe he genuinely seeks to follow the will of God for his life, he surely doesn’t get it all right. Hmmm… does that sound familiar? Sounds like me… and you?
    We can’t forget that we must follow our conscience, or the leading of the Spirit, first. If W feels he is genuinely doing the right thing, we really can’t fault him for that. We try to make complex issues overly simplistic so that we can label someone “this” or “that”. Each of us does the best we can before God, and none of us can expect to be thought of well by everyone; in fact, the Bible warns against such a phenomena.
    While I did vote for W because I fall more in line with his thinking, I would have just as much a responsibility to pray for Kerry had he won the election. Name-calling and anger can’t possibly advance the cause of good. We are called to pray for our leaders, and not the prayer that says “Lord, let him see things my way”.
    Hey, all of our glasses are a different color, and maybe if we were in the prez’ shoes we’d see things differently. We so much need a culture of positivity and grace. Let’s look for the good, however little, that exists in the current situation.

  • stephanie says:

    thank you for this post andrew. these are refreshing words to hear from the ec side of things.

  • andrew, your non-binary way of expressing things is truly refreshing. thanks.

  • cloudburst says:

    this conversation reminds me of God’s relationship to ancient Babylon, as an example of a nation that did not follow Him in actuality or even in pretense , but was oft used for His purposes, to achieve ends and goals that had far far reaching consequences they could never imagine..
    great good was done by the hand of babylon, the chastisement and preparation of Israel for a Saviour as an example… even nebuchednezzer (sp?) finally saw the light, and worshipped our Lord.
    i stand with your view Andrew, in Hope and an often-challenged sense of Joy for our world.
    “if God can use an ass, he can use me.” – ?

  • Andrew says:

    cloudburst – impressive thinking for a DJ, very impressive! good to hear from you.
    and Tim – re: “good way to get comments” – honestly, i didnt want comments on this one, which is why i suggested people do not complain here on this post.
    Funny how that happens – the areas we dont like to talk about (politics for me) become hotspots and platforms for conversations to happen.
    Maybe its because my disinterest in politics makes me more neutral, i dont know.
    But i would like this conversation to continue . . . on someone elses blog – perhaps someone who has a hankering for change through politics . . .
    will samson perhaps, at Willzhead.

  • Iggie Krug says:

    This is why I left the whole postmodern movement because people are so blind to politics. George Bush is the Chosen One Huh?
    Andrew you don’t live in the New America. You don’t see Bush use the politics of distraction to bring hatred on gay people. The church by backing Bush may have alienated an entire group of people they have tried to evangelize.
    He claims to believe in a society of life while a few days later bombing the hell out of Fallujah.
    He claims to believe in reality. He is not the messiah. In fact America may just be Babylon. We are the largest consumer of the world.
    Seek out Ezekiel about the real reason Sodom and its sister city fell. We are the New Sodom. We too will fall while Evangelical Christians embrace American Politics.
    The sons of those who commited genocide on our soil will now commit it again in Iraq and the Middle East.
    America is not a Christian Nation. We are a nation led by our God. Which is greed, pride, hatred, and legalism. We are nation led by distractions of the blind.

  • hadge says:

    Andrew, we met at a mutual friends a while back (Mark Carter) and it was good to put a face and personality to a blog – I visit often without commenting but this time I thought I’d pitch in my ten penneth (northern slang) – my real concern is that we are in danger of being naive if we believe politicians when they make claims to be on a mandate from God – the truth is that without the backing of the evangelical right Bush would not have made it this time round – and Bin Laden’s video also gave him an ironic boost – truth is there was a deliberate strategy to win the votes that counted and the moral majority came out in force – I blogged about it myself here http://www.nakedandalive.co.uk/2004/11/beating-around-bush.html but without anything like the same response – I’m just a minnow in blogsville. Jesus warned against looking for signs of the times and we attempt to read them at our peril – Presidents come and go and with them so do the prophesies and promises – there’s nothing new under the sun.

  • andrew jones says:

    Hi Hadge
    I need to say that i am disappointed with these comments. I wish we all could have had an intelligent conversation here. instead, we had a mountain of knee-jerk reactions from people sliding back into their bi-partisan positions, and restating here on the blog what they have probably been saying in pubs and at work, without stopping to rethink or retool, and certainly not stopping long enough to hear what i was trying to say, or see what i might be seeing, even if it is quite fuzzy right now.
    I am trying to look at the situation with Celtic “second sight”. I am trying to see above what everyone else sees and what the tabloids shout and what the blogs spew out. I think there is something here that is different.
    And Iggie, Yes, it has been 4 and a half years since i left USA, and yes, the country may have changed in that time. But when i left, USA was a country that was split down the middle and pushed to extremites on almost every single issue, making intelligent conversation almost impossible without taking sides. It is a Ford vs Chevy world, a Mac vx PC world, an emerging church vs. traditional church world which is unfortunate because the world is not really like that, only in the minds of teenagers, the naiive, the immature.
    Is the New America smarter than that? Or like the America i knew, is it still partial to sloganeering and polarity without balance or seasoned wisdom?
    Yet there are many in USA who are strong thinkers and are not easily boxed into reductionist, simplistic categories. I received an email from one of them (who voted for Bush) this morning regarding this blog post.
    He says . .
    “I really like Psalm 146:3-7 (NLT), “Don’t put your confidence in powerful people; there is no help for you there. When their breathing stops, they return to the earth, and in a moment all their plans come to an end. But happy are those who have the God of Israel as their helper, whose hope is in the LORD their God. He is the one who made heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them. He is the one who keeps every promise forever, who gives juste to the oppressed and food to the hungry. The LORD frees the prisoners”.
    Am I naiive?
    I did not say that Bush has a mandate – I said he believes he has a mandate.
    I did not say that he is God’s Chosen One (Iggie). I said he believes God has put him there for a purpose.
    I do not believe America is a Christian nation or is godlier than other nations, or needs to be godly for God to use it. This is man’s thinking. God can use evil nations if he wants.
    But I am out here in the field, seeing resources come out of USA that are blessing what I am doing, as well as others. And for me to aggree with the simplistic thinking reflected in these comments would be to cut off my frontal lobe AND deny what my spirit is telling me.
    I am not a Repubican I did not vote for Bush.
    I am a New Zealander who lives on an island between Scotland and Norway.
    I am not coming from the same place as bi-partison Americans (sorry) or Tabloid-influenced English (sorry again) and my perspective is therefore unique.
    To hear me . . . . to really hear what I am saying . . . you simply have to step away from your prejudices for a moment and see what I see.
    Very few of the commentors here were able to do that. It was much easier to slide back into automatic mode and shoot without thinking.
    However, something happened last week that i believe is highly significant. And I am asking if anyone else sees what i see.
    The Church-goers (as the Scotsman newspaper called them last weekend) in USA put the president they chose into office. I am speaking generally here. Perhaps they are the evangelical right, but put that aside for a moment and here me again . .
    THE CHURCH put the person they chose into office.
    Earlier this year, THE CHURCH turned a movie called The Passion from a predicted failure into an outrageous success. THE CHURCH!
    The year before, THE CHURCH emerged as an economic entity in making Contempory Christian Music one of the stronger performers in sales of records.
    Political strength. Cultural strength. Economic strength. Influence and leadership in many areas. What is God training the American church to do?????????????????????????? Let him or her with ears to hear figure that out.
    Now I need to personally step over the fact that i did not like The Passion, don’t listen to CCM and am not a Republican. I also need to put aside the fact that I disagree strongly with the war in Iraq and the abuse of power globally, and the abuse of the envrivonment, etc
    But if i am to be a thinking person, which i pray that God will make me if i am not already, and if i am to offer something prophetic to the world and not just tabloid speculation or Politically Correct assention, then i MUST have the ability rise above the issues and ask the question that no one else is asking . .
    Is there something going on here that is BIGGER than what CNN are reporting or HIGHER than what people are saying?
    Is there a pattern revealing itself in human history at this moment that may shed light on what God is doing or wanting to do?
    And I say . . . YES. I think there is.
    To quote another American, who was also in a sticky, messy, ugly, bi-partisan situation called The Civil War,
    “He who does not see the hand of God in this is blind, sir, blind”
    Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson
    I suggest that we stop these comments on this particular post, because there is so much nonsense here, “too much heat, not enough light”. I would be willing to start another conversation and will put a link to it here when i do.
    UPDATE: ok – i started another conversation and the tone is far better. i suggest you jump off at this point and pick it up at the post entitled Is God up to something in the USA

  • Amber R says:

    We can’t forget that we must follow our conscience, or the leading of the Spirit, first. If W feels he is genuinely doing the right thing, we really can’t fault him for that. We try to make complex issues overly simplistic so that we can label someone “this” or “that”. Each of us does the best we can before God, and none of us can expect to be thought of well by everyone; in fact, the Bible warns against such a phenomena.

  • what would happen if George W. Bush said ” ahhhh . . we havent done very well in relating to Muslim cultures, but we really want to help out. Why dont we just send some lovin to the mission groups who have a heart for it – they are better trained in contextualisation than we are and they are not interested in colonialsim, commercialism or exploiting Iraq. and besides that, if missionaries bring peace, then we will have less war and less headache??????”
    And Richard, if that happened, and there were more resources flowing towards missions in the middle east, then both you and i know that most of the people riding that wave will be coming from South Korea and Brazil and nigeria, not from South Carolina.
    Great talking with you Suds, and thanks for taking the time to comment on my blog.

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