Since we are all talking about Ted Haggard [without cementing the accusations] and pastors with a little common sense are examining pot-holes and booby-traps in their own lives, I want to throw a little thought out into the blogosphere that might be of some help to traveling preachers, missionaries and executives. Not because i am perfect, but because i am aware of the constant struggle for purity and the increased pressure that travel adds to it. And I have been traveling for a few decades and have stayed at countless hotels so this thought has been brewing for a while.
Mark Driscoll’s advice for traveling ministers is good and I recommend reading it – although his comment on wives letting themselves go is as Emerging Mosaic points out, a little UNTIMELY [dang Mark, couldn’t you wait a week before bringing Mrs Haggard into the equation??] and his advise on ALWAYS traveling with a partner or child is helpful in an idealist world but not really practical for those without a hefty budget or those who are road warriors for the Kingdom. I travel a third of my time. I work in lots of countries and cities and if i had to bring someone with me on every trip, my kids would never get educated and i would have to ask my supporters for a much bigger travel allowance. MUCH bigger. And raising funds from churches and individuals for my own ministry at its current lowly level is tough enough.
And like Mark Driscoll, God has been gracious – neither myself nor my wife (who is traveling from Orgeon to Houston today) have ever slept with anyone else – ever. And you can just imagine the offers i get with my stunning good looks.
OK – point taken . . .
Most of the time I travel alone but i am careful where i stay. If i have a choice, I crash on a friends couch. In summer I bring my tent. I even crash on airport floors to save a few bucks and travel time. If i don’t know anyone in a city, I usually stay at a youth hostel. Its really cheap and i stay in a room with 5 or more people. I have to sleep with my wallet and passport in my pocket or under my pillow but it keeps me away from hotels where i am all alone and where weird things happen.
Heres the deal. Hotels can be treacherous places for people of God to stay at because of the spiritual residue from weird and dark things that have happened in that room. OK – some of you will think me loony here. And some of you don’t believe in demons. But let me play it out.
Technorati Tags: emerging church, ted haggard
Hotels, like a particular house in New Orleans, have been the ruin of many a poor boy. Some hotels are famous for the part they had to play in the destruction of careers and downfall of movie stars. Fatty Arbuckle at St Francis Hotel, San Francsico (pictured above) comes to mind every time i walk by that hotel. And there are others.
Hotels are often places where anonymously weird, perverted, dangerous, evil things of a dark nature happen – all attracting the attention and the attachment of evil spirits. Permission is granted to those spirits in those places and I don’t think that permission is withdrawn once the people are gone. That means if you end up in a hotel room where weird things have just happened, you really need to do some kung fu in that room and cleanse it out before you put your bags down and settle in for the night. Really. And someone close to you should know where you are. And, I argue, why do church ministers all have to stay in nice hotels anyway?
In the emerging church scene that i frequent, very few people have the bucks to stay in hotels so we couch-surf our way around the world and that not only helps deal with the hotel scandal thing, but it also opens up lots of space to be together in our own homes and learn to be the church together.
Anyway, thats my two cents.
Related:
Ted Haggard. The Video
Meth Was a Bad Choice
Haggard and the Hazzard of Hotels
Carrying Your Dad’s Dumbbell
Gayle Haggard: An Excellent Woman Who Can Find?
OK, you are absolutly right. Forget my post on previous post on the subject. Its just allways shocking for me…
Although the advice about avoiding being alone in hotels is probably wise, it did strike me that several of Driscoll’s suggestions only work for pastors of megachurches with large budgets. Kind of like Madonna having no idea how much a quart of milk costs.
I’m hearing you Andrew. Loads of common sense here.
Andrew,
I really appreciate your wisdom about combating spiritual darkness. I have been conversing with emerging circles for a few years now and I find many shying away from such topics. I find what you have to say on the issue necessary and appropriate.
Even if you can’t take someone with you (which I agree is a great idea, but does seem to only work for the big bucks churches), it is possible to not travel alone.
Couch surfing across the world does lend it’s self to developing world wide community. This allows people to travel without being far from family (the spiritual true family). And those family members can help keep you accountable and connected with the biological family that you are away from.
Plus with email, skype, and all sorts of other nifty stuff, you never will travel to far away to truly be alone.
Good Post TSK.
Good thoughts Andrew. We all need to hear that. I’ve been in a place for a while now of being able to see the need for certain “rules” for one’s self in things like this. And it’s not about legalism or gaining anyone’s, much less God’s, favor. It’s about, where and what do you want to be in your life? Well, make sure and do what belongs to that and not something else.
And realizing that we are all weak to some certain degree and are not beyond temptation. Same goes for general relationships and situations with the opposite sex who aren’t our spouses. That always sounds too “old-fashioned” for many in our emerging circles today – until something happens. Oh well. We don’t want to totally live in fear either but I’m sure wisdom has been labeled fear before. Anyway, let me stop rambling. Peace to you.
thanks. i should say that i do end up in hotels – often placed there by conference organizers or churches. and its always nice to enjoy them when i can.
A little spiritual Kung Fu before unpacking your bags sound like good advice.
I know one person who does lots of conferences and other events. His policy is to ask the organizers to put him up in a Christian home. He avoids hotels as much as possible.
The Ted Haggard issue seems to bring up the issue of power and position. Dang it, he was a pastor of 14,000 AND the leader of the NAE. Does that strike any one else as a bit much?
If anything, this situation seems to point out the beauty of smaller, local churches and a critical examination of celebrity pastors/ministers.
This goes for the emerging church as well as every other branch of Christianity. Can we have our “Pauls” who travel about and encourage the church? Surely. But can we think of healthier ways to lead our churches in light of this scandal?
I hope so.
well, first let me offer my couch to anybody seriously in need of not staying in a hotel here in new orleans…
now for the other part…
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for this post. dude it’s hard enough to go out to Uptown or the Quarter here by myself (so i almost never do). it’s not so much that i anticipate falling. chances are likely that i won’t. (no girl would get drunk enough to have me, and i’ve never been tempted by the booze enough to go after it.) but i won’t do it. Jesus said go two by two- in part (or in full) for accountability.
so anyway, thanks man.
Besides finding most of Driscolls suggestions impractical and impediments to actually loving and serving in the kingdom of God, I am disgusted that even in light of the details of this paticular scandal, he puts the blame on women. He dwells on it being women who are the flirts or who have let themselves go – and so its all their fault. This seems just be another jab by Driscoll at women in order to remove them further from any church ministry roles and make the church continue to view them as inferior…
Driscoll’s comments did seem very odd (and quite offensive!) particularly in this situation. It seems in this situation that Haggard wasn’t tempted by a woman, he sought out the company of a man. It seems to me that we’re skirting the issue completely.
sleeping alone in a hotel room – however evil the spirits may be that dwell there – is not going to cause Haggard’s alleged behaviour. There’s a whole sick system that’s built up in our churches of denying and honestly facing the battles people have with their sexuality. Until we face that things are never going to change. We shouldn’t be hypocritical enough to express surprise at situations like this.
i appreciate your words on spiritual stuff hanging out in places and wanting to have a place feel “light”. P.S. cool new banner/header
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[tsk] thanks maryellen – i took the picture of that bike in Belgium and it makes me smile every time i see it.
great post andrew. never thought about the hotel angle.
Great thoughts….i kept myself from reading Driscoll’s comments, cause I am trying to stay holy and he usually gets me pretty pissed off…
I know that several people have mentioned couch crashing. As a fan of the road I love it, but what can we offer up to maybe organize it a little more.
I have alot of friends that play in Rock and Roll bands that tour and they stay at my house. Heck, I think I could get around 5 people sleeping NOT on the floor.
Is there some sort of master couch crashing database with people that will offer up their pad for their brothers and sisters.
If anyone is around Lexington,KY they can stay with me and the wife and get chocalate chip pancakes in the morning.
chad. good question. about a year ago a website started up called [i think] couchsurfer.com or couchsurfers.com- if you signed up to crash in someones house, you were also making your couch available. great idea . maybe church folk should have one like that.
it would totally work for me
the other thing is that all these new monastic centers that are popping up have a strong philosophy of hospitality and i am encouraging them to have an “Elijah Room” for traveling prophets and teachers and apostles to stay in when they come through.
if any geek out there want to put a database into motion, let me know.
I have read a whole bundle of english speaking posts on Haggard, and there are a whole lot of interesting theories out there conserning the reason for what happened. Driscolls is the worst by far. “The reason is that pastors wifes let the selves go, because their husbands are trapped in fidelity”. You speak about the danger of hotels (they are infected by demons), yet another one suggests that it is a male menopause issue. Emerging Grace is the first I´ve read that seaks the reason where I believe it is to be found: In the american leadership ideal. You guys tend to put your leaders on a pedistal, expecting them to be superhuman, and this IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE GOSPEL!!! We are all sinners and in need of a saviour. How can it be a surprise that Haggard is human? When it is revealed that the church has been led by a HUMAN BEING (oh, the shame) a team of superhuman garbageguys are called in and he is quickly disposed of. What if pastors would have a place to be human, to confess, to be transparant? Then theese things wouldn´t have to happen! I also think north american christians have a strange relationship to sexuality. It is like they view it as a uncontrollable force that posess them all. If a man and a woman (or man and man in Haggards case) end up alone in a room – then the auto pilot kicks in and there is nothing one can do… I think what was first a way of motivating people by fear has been repeated so many times that it is now viewed as the truth. How come american christians are an exeption to what has been true for all other christians; that our sexuality is subject to our will? This is the reason we can talk about celibacy and no sex outside of marriage – because it is possible to say no! I believe the way american christians talk about it will produce a victim mentality and self fulfilling prophecies: “I wasn´t responsible, I am a victim to my sexuality, because I had the opportunity. And we all know what happens then…”
I hope I haven´t insulted anyone.
thanks pastor astor
i hope you didnt read me saying that the ONE single reason for ted haggard’s fall was a demonized hotel room. that would be a silly thing to say.
i am sure there are dozens of factors contributing – which are helpful to discuss as we examine our own lives and walk – but it comes down to choosing the fruit on the tree, and as i say in another more recent post .. . Meth was a bad choice
“if any geek out there want to put a database into motion, let me know”
hey… why not, I have plenty of free time! and I do love the geekery side of things. maybe drop me an email andrew, and see if we can get this going?
I think that Marc Driscoll got the thing about pastor’s wives letting themselves go and not being available sexually wrong. I believe that he should have told the pastors to make sure they keep physically fit and studly looking for their wives and maybe they would want to have sex with them. Why is this old addage never presented in this manner?
Poor Mrs. Haggard. I certainly hope she doesn’t read Marc’s entry. And I saw a picture of her; she looks quite beautiful. But, what has THAT got to do with any of this? Yes, Marc had some good things to say but that one point tells me a lot about the mindset. We need to get back to scripture and what it teaches us about sexual sin and stop blaming women for not being attractive and sexual enough.
Do you know the double message we get? Either we are too pretty and sexual and a threat to all the other men around us or we have let ourselves go, too frumpy and if our husbands stumble it is our fault.
Maybe these pastors aren’t getting any because they have let themselves go and now are sporting big guts and bad teeth from all the pie socials?
I say this all tongue in cheek. It is a ridiculous assertion either way. All the sex and beauty in the world will not keep someone from sinning sexually. Just ask King David.
I agree with Pastor Astor’s comment about us Americans being the only ones who seem to think that a male’s sexuality cannot be controlled by the will. We have a queer way of looking at it especially when the Bible teaches us that the problem of lust and ungodly desires lies with the one lusting.
Sexuality IS subject to our will. We are not the puppets of our sex drives. The Bible makes it clear that we are capable through the Holy Spirit of controlling ourselves. We are not animals who are programmed by animal instincts.
Thanks for the good thoughts, Andrew. I have enjoyed reading through your blog.
emma – thanks – couchsurfing.com
Corrie – yes – gayle is great looking – and i wish pastor astor was only talking about americans but the sad fact is that is is a worldwide problem
i talked to an english minister a while ago about abstinence and he called it an unreasonable expectation for young Christians. – that was a shock to hear.
I find you guys extremely judgmental, and usually that is reserved for us fundamentalists. I read Driscoll’s comments and thought they were good. Perhaps I am too naive, but I would have never thought anything wrong until a few people started complaining. Then I went back and reread, and can’t figure out what the hubbub is about.
First, he didn’t blame it on women. If you think he did, go back and reread it. His comments were directed at men.
Secondly, he commented on pastors he knows. He didn’t comment on all pastors. The same is true whether one is a man or woman. If you do not have a healthy sexual relationship at home, you will be more tempted to look elsewhere for it. That is why the Proverbs tell us to be satisfied with the wife of our youth.
Thirdly, he made a generic comment about women who let themselves go. Do you deny that that is true? If you do, you are living with your head in the sand. Many women (and men) have let themselves go. The reality is that this is usually a bigger deal for men, since they are more visually oriented than women. That doesn’t excuse others, but let’s not deny the truth here.
Fourth, his principle seems to be what God said in 1 Cor 7, that is, to avoid fornication, have a wife and pursue a healthy sexual relationship with her.
I just find it strange that you guys are so judgmental about this. I really do. Ironic as well.
Andrew –
While I was quite offended by Driscoll’s post, I did not interpret your post on hotel rooms as an excuse for anyone’s behaviour.
I was encouraged to read of someone who had experienced the problem of residual spiritual presences in hotel rooms – well, that came out wrong. I mean I was encouraged to read of someone who was aware of this problem. I used to be more sensitive to this, but I have frankly let my awareness be dulled. And, of course, it doesn’t only affect people traveling singly…
After having happily left behind the church circles and the era where there was an over-focus on demons and their influence, it is encouraging to read of someone who still takes into some account an awareness of spiritual realities.
larry – thanks for letting your stuff out loud for us. if you want to hear what dozens of female bloggers are objecting to, do a search and see or check out
anything they say or momsquawk.
i am no expert in talking in women and actually am somewhat of a blundermouth but 19 years of marriage has taught me that timing and sensitivity and context can be just as important as the facts or what i think are the facts.
and thanks Christine for letting me say something that a lot of people get extreme and weird about.
andrew,
i like the idea of couch surfing and see the benefits. the problem is that i just don’t know people in some of the towns/areas that i travel to that would enable me to couch surf. i would love to do it though, i would be much happier and better off hanging out with people, even ones i don’t know, then sitting alone in a hotel room.
thanks,
dean
ever in the cleveland, oh area…my couch is always available. or, like my boy opie taylor, we could always put the ironing board up on two chairs for ya…now thats adventure sleeping. let me know 216.973.4212
Just wanted to toss something else into the mix of about hotels. In last November’s edition of CT, there was a cover article about Ted Haggard. In the article is a picture of him meditatively looking at his computer in a hotel room.
The caption reads: “Hotel Sanctuary: Haggard is so drawn to people that his staff forced him into seclusion at a Denver hotel to write.”
“First, he didn’t blame it on women. If you think he did, go back and reread it. His comments were directed at men.”
Hi Larry,
How was his comment concerning pastor’s wives being fat and lazy and not having fabulous sex like SOS directed at men?
“Thirdly, he made a generic comment about women who let themselves go. Do you deny that that is true? If you do, you are living with your head in the sand. Many women (and men) have let themselves go. The reality is that this is usually a bigger deal for men, since they are more visually oriented than women. That doesn’t excuse others, but let’s not deny the truth here.”
I am assuming you are a man so you wouldn’t really know if it is a big deal for women. I would direct you to the Song of Songs where the Shulamite is QUITE excited about the APPEARANCE of her lover’s body. Eve was lured away by her EYES. Women are visually oriented. I have seen this used as an excuse by many men for the reason why they can’t control themselves and why they want to impose their extrabiblical rules on other women. Well, God didn’t make men to lust. I think we as the church have bought a big, fat lie in this area.
I, a woman, like a nicely built man every bit as much as you, a man, like a nicely built woman. Maturity causes me to realize that there is much more to life than pursuing sex with the ever elusive Greek Adonis.
I would posit that it is maturity that makes the difference in this matter. Dr. Phil just had a husband on his show the other day who had a very sexy wife who was always sexually available to him. He cheated on her all the time. He said he was made that way. He knew he could get it anytime he wanted from his wife and that took all the excitement out of sex. He like the hunt and chase. He just wanted her to accept that “fact” that this is how he was made.
If you can find a bible verse to back up your “men are visual, women are not”, I am open to being swayed by it. So far, I have yet to find that Bible verse that tells me God made men to be visually turned on more so than women.
It seems that the SOS clearly shows us that both sexes are very excited by their lover’s bodies. Do you see a difference between the level of excitement in that book of the Bible?
Maybe I am just a rare woman who appreciates a man’s manly form and if allowed to, get sexually excited by seeing it?
That is why I purposely turn away from the posters in the Abercrombie and Fitch store at the mall. Men, do you know what you guys do to us women by being so handsome and having such manly forms?? 🙂
Another question:
Yes, I do know that some women have let themselves go. I do not deny that.
BUT, there are just as many men who have let themselves go.
My question: Why don’t we ever hear about the men who have let themselves go and cause their wives to go look for other men to have sex with?
I would agree with this point if it weren’t so one-sided and frankly- sexist.
I have seen many, many fat (shall I assume them to be “lazy” too like Marc does?) pastors who are married to fit, attractive women. There are many, many men who woo their wives and wine and dine them and then once they got them and have married them, they totally stop doing that because they view their wives as conquered. They see their wives as “trapped” and so don’t try anymore.
Do women who have let themselves go really think the way Marc said they do? Do they really let themselves go because they have trapped their pastor husbands into fidelity? That sounds very silly.
Maybe they have had a lot of children in a few years and are doing the lion’s share of the work and have no time for themselves? Why give such a bad motive to these women? Are they really lazy and so cold-hearted and manipulative? Or is it something else?
This is a sexist attitude and I am glad some are willing to expose it and call it what it is.
I can agree with Marc’s other points on some things and at the same time expose his wrong thinking on some things. Don’t you agree?
I am a married man and a pastor. I read and re read Mark Driscoll’s piece. Mark, If Mark is “taking one for the team” then he and I aren’t on the same team. Nothing like heaping more guilt on woman who are trying to compete with the unreal body expectations of our culture. I’m glad he was fortunate enough to marry a beautiful girl as he said, but the fact is there is always someone out there more beautiful. And what about inner adornment?
Ladies, don’t back down on what you have said in your posts. Driscoll was way off the mark and maybe even added to the problem. The sad thing is that so many men won’t get it.
thats what is so surprising about all this – the men aren’t getting it. Over at Emerging Women the women were outraged at his words. But so far a lot of men don’t get how sexist and offensive Driscoll’s comments are.
Great to see a lively discussion. Two points
Firstly – great post Andrew, and directly relevent to my life. I do not travel as part of any church thing, but for work. I try my best to get out of it (3 wonderful girls under 6) but every few years I visit multitude of places in as short a time as possible. (from NZ if you go anywere it is best to see all the people you can). Hotel rooms are a big challege, espically as often you are not out with colleges etc etc as you fly into a city for a meeting and fly out again. Now my eyes have been opened, of cource it is harder to stay away from lust cause they can be port holes to demonic nasties. Explains also why some hotels I enjoyed staying at and were refreshed and others drained my completly….
Secondly about wifes letting themselves go. Only being marridged for 10 years and only just figured out I don’t know much, I would share the following story.
My wife has battled a weight problem for as long as I have known her. She just needs to look at starches and the weight goes on. And you girls know how the weight gains and stay on after babies. Yes – was I resentful that i didn’t have a babe wife, if I am honest I say yes – I would like to think that I am more mature than this, but alase I am a very fallen sinner. Anyway when I made a commitment a year or two ago to do two things, firstly to only say postive things about my wifes appearence (so helpful hints about eating, no nothing at all) secondly to pray regularly that she would overcome her struggle with weight (I want a healthly wife as long as possible, and excess weight is a big health issue). About a year after I started this she said I think I want to go to the gym, eat properly and get in shape. So we sat down and figured out how much this would cost in $$ for food, gym, trainer etc and secondly the time commitment (esp with 3 kids).
The results have been amazing, she has lost 35kg (!!!) over the last nearly 2 years. And she is fired up about loosing another 10-20 to be down into the hearthly range. And I am very proud of her dedication to daily hard work and daily discipline of her life. She has way more character than I !!
So in conclusion I believe that if your wife have gone frumpy that as a husband one needs to take responcibility in part for this and figure out how to love your wife to a point were she wants to be the best she can be visually. And through laying down ones life for your wife it enables her to be all she can be. (Someone famous once taught on this 🙂
Anyway better go now……..
Yes it concern
“I say this all tongue in cheek. It is a ridiculous assertion either way. All the sex and beauty in the world will not keep someone from sinning sexually. Just ask King David.”
Speaking from experience, I have to say I think Corrie is right in this statement and the example of King David. I daresay there are a lot of guys with good-looking sexyful wives, but who still have a drive to look at porn, etc. Six wives couldn’t even keep David from wanting another. I wonder if it is a lot more closely related to power than what one’s wife looks like.
Andrew, besides have very little money these days, last July I stayed in the tent instead of the hotel room that Trevor offered me for the very same reasons that you wrote about. Thanks for your good and helpful post
Haggard
Ett inlägg värt att lyssna på:When does the evangelical church admit that they don`t have answers for sexual addiction, perversion or homosexual inclinations?Christianity does not cure addiction. Christians are forgiven for sin. More importantly,
nice to hear from you Wolf. And it was good to share a youth hostel with you also in London.
DANG YOU DO SNOOOOOORE though!!!
To all those up for a bit of couchsurfing-esque activites… I will be checking out what we can do for this, see if we can get something similar to the current website system, so keep your eyes peeled, either on my blog or here, hopefully get andrew to post something when i get a bit more research done for it!
[andrew] will do!!!! thanks!!1
Just a brief response. Reading these responses reminds me why communication is so difficult. People don’t see the big picture of what is actually being said. They process it through their own biases and prejudices and often see things that aren’t said, or assume the inverse (because you didn’t say men were wrong, you must not believe they are). Please be careful with words.
Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with Driscoll. I have criticized him when he does something stupid (and he has done plenty). I don’t when he does not.
How was his comment concerning pastor’s wives being fat and lazy and not having fabulous sex like SOS directed at men?
The post was directed at men. The comments in view here were directed at both, I think. They echo the sentiments of the SOS and 1 Cor 7. A wife’s responsibility is to take care of her husband’s needs sexually and physically. Do you disagree?
I am assuming you are a man so you wouldn’t really know if it is a big deal for women.
See my opening paragraph for introduction to response. Now, read what I said. I did not say it was not a big deal for women. I said it was “usually” a bigger deal for men. That is simply true. That doesn’t mean women are disinterested in their man’s appearance. But it means, generally speaking, that for men it is a bigger deal than for women.
If you can find a bible verse to back up your “men are visual, women are not”, I am open to being swayed by it. So far, I have yet to find that Bible verse that tells me God made men to be visually turned on more so than women.
Why do you think the vast majority of the porn industry has been aimed at men, not women? It seems the world is wiser than some believers … and I didn’t say that first. Why do you think women’s magazines generally have more stories, and men’s more pictures? (It has nothing to do with reading ability.) The erotic novel industry is geared toward women and generally presents romantic sex in some sort of relationship. The erotic picture industry is generally geared toward men and presents raw sex without thought of relationships.
On the Scripture issue, there are a number of things that are axiomatic and self-evident through general revelation that are not explicitly stated in special revelation. So asking for a Bible verse rings a little hollow.
Why don’t we ever hear about the men who have let themselves go and cause their wives to go look for other men to have sex with?
I don’t know that we never hear about it. I do. But perhaps you don’t. I am dealing right now with a man who let himself go in a number of areas, and his wife went looking elsewhere. I am trying to pick up the pieces.
I would agree with this point if it weren’t so one-sided and frankly- sexist.
To be honest, if you think it was one-sided and sexist, you didn’t read very closely and certainly did not understand the intent behind it. There was nothing sexist in what I said. Your response just shows how easy it is to misread what is being said.
I can agree with Marc’s other points on some things and at the same time expose his wrong thinking on some things. Don’t you agree?
Absolutely. But read what was actually said. Be slow to take offense. I think some of the stuff Mark says is very sexist, and very stupid. This just wasn’t one of them.
God did not make men to lust. That is a part of teh fall. And in some cases, a healthy sexual relationship with a spouse will not stop outside interests. But a lack of a healthy relationship will increase the temptation. That is exactly the point of 1 Cor 7 (and that is explicit Scripture).
thanks Larry.
its a brave man indeed who is willing to jump in here and talk it out.
hey – can you do me a favor – and everyone else in this thread what want to talk about the women issue and not the hotel issue:
i have a post on this that i want you all to migrate to. its called the fat lazy blog-post that has let itself go. See you there . ..
Dean!
My name is Daniel Astgard and I read your comment on couch surfing at Tall Skinny. Here is what we do in Sweden: When a church books you, you make it clear that you are not interested in coming to share a message, if they want a message, you can send them a CD or DVD instead. What you do want is fellowship – meeting the people and fellowship. In that setting your message has a chance to be heard. Sharing life is a joke otherwise. Ask to stay with a pastor, youthpastor or who ever it is you think will benefit from some time together.
Try it, it really is a lot more fulfilling!
thats a much better way – yah Europe – i have enjoyed staying in the homes of Europeans when i preach there.
and you did mean message, didnt you. not massage??
. . . sorry. getting late here and i am going to put the kids to bed. good night.
Personally I don’t know why we keep doing exactly what Mr Driscoll seems to want which is to make him the centre of the excitement. He speaks, the blog world buzzes with his latest over the top statements and he gets way too much time and attention – not too mention stirring up a lot of blue on blue action – who wants to get caught in another Driscoll friendly fire storm?
As my dear mother would say, ignore him and he’ll soon stop – admitedly she was talking about my brother but she was right – 20 yrs later he’s only semi annyoying,
I think as some of the commentators here have suggested we as church people need to look at what sort of churches we are participating in and how we deal with sexual brokeness as much as any other brokeness – when the church system keeps failing, Mr Haggard, being the most high profile casualty, it makes me ask whether the system we have is giving us precisely these results.
It’s a conversation that I have started here if any one is interested.
http://www.jasonclark.ws/2006/11/07/what-sort-of-church-am-i-projectingperpetuatingparticipating-in-reflections-on-ted-haggard-me-and-all-of-our-church-families/
Interesting perspective. However, Mike Jones, the prostitute, said that he never met Haggard in a hotel. He said Haggard would never would have wanted to meet him in such a public place. He said Haggard always came to his apartment. . .and parked on a different block.
You are dead on. Oh that we would more often engage in that very real war with prayer and the spiritual armor God provides for us. Pray for integrity in the Body of Christ.
i rarely travel away from my family but recently i attended the revolution conference…with a friend. at the end of the long day, as i waited in the foyer of the host church for my friend, there were so many single guys just hanging out, far from their homes, i presume, and on their own for the night. right then and there i realized how lonliness and the prospect of an empty hotel room can spur an intelligent, monogamous man to be stupid. i’m not a man, but i am human and the need for companionship is as basic as the need for water.
It would be lovely if all travelling men were as thoughtful about it as you are TSK. And that the conferences that invite them to speak or (attend) were thoughtful in the lodging arrangements. How would Jesus lodge?
(i’m smiling here, it’s a funny question, and it alludes to the bigger question of how we spend our time and money in these gatherings we call conferences?)
thanks pam
on nov 2nd, the day before i heard about ted, a missons colleague told me he was coming to london to do a meeting with me and a few others
i offered to share a hotel room with him – sounds really weird but it is a help – he said no. because he snores so badly but we may end up in the same place for the night.
which is good
I agree Paul… why are we still listening to Driscoll anymore at all anyway? Would we hold up a blatantly racist pastor as worth listening to, even if they did occasionally say true things? So why are we still listening to a pastor who seems to be pathologically sexist in nearly everything he preaches or writes?
As per Hotels……. we used to have a phrase at the “house”- you can ask Derek……
It was RUN THE DRILL!!!!!!!
RECON in the Spirit is mandatory!
amen andrew… amen!!!
love ya cathryn.